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Do you support Michigan's new right-to-work law?

  1. Yes
  2. No
 
 
 
 
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Comments

(97)

Vauche

Mar-29-13 11:23 PM

What's not to like. The end of union control of the job market in Michigan.

Finally the unions may have to compete in a "fair" market where people aren't forced to hire union labor. Funny word, fair, isn't it. I've heard it a lot lately. Wonder who from?

3 Agrees | 9 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

frogleggs

Mar-30-13 1:07 PM

FAIR IS FAIR.

People who don’t belong,

or don't care to pay union dues, should not be accorded the benefits of union-won bargaining benefits.

AFTER ALL

“FAIR IS FAIR”

So if you don’t want to play the game,

you don’t get to eat the same and have the same benefits.

Then, once RTW’s see the ‘benefits’ of union-membership,

they would indeed have a true idea of the RIGHT-TO-WORK…

free of union intervention.

FAIRLY, without the benefits of union won bargaining.

It would be interesting and entertaining if RTW's were employed at a lower level of pay,

benefits and working conditions,

to entertain how long they would hold council with the RTW crowd.

How’s, that for smoke in your…

colon ...

5 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

frogleggs

Mar-30-13 1:09 PM

People like the writer below,

are so full of themselves,

they begin to write and think like the stuff their full of:

c.r.a.p..

The same tirade about preaching fair, and fairness…

What should be “FAIR”,

then,

according the inane writer below,

is the fact that

NON-UNION workers and NON-UNION members,

should NOT be accorded the same privileges won in a labor-union negotiated contract.

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frogleggs

Mar-30-13 1:14 PM

Vauche,

Yawn, yawn…

Yawn . . . . ... . ......

Snooze snooze… snooze........

Snore, SNORE, snore!

Galore...

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yooperdawg

Mar-30-13 6:40 PM

If this is about "freedom" please explain to me why the police and fireman are exempt from this? Shouldn't they be allowed the same "freedom"?

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Vauche

Apr-01-13 10:04 AM

First, Frog, the unions would not be the ones determining what RTW compensation would be. That's between the RTW and the company. Barganing power of one. May or may not be beneficial for the RTW.

Second, absolutely correct for a change. If the RTWs don't like what they get offered they sure may decide that joining the union is beneficial. Good for them, nothing in this law says they can't!

Only one preaching fair is you, unless it doesn't fit your idealized world view.

1 Agrees | 4 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Vauche

Apr-01-13 10:34 AM

People who don’t belong,

or don't care to pay union dues, should not be accorded the benefits of union-won bargaining benefits.

Funny, maybe we should apply this same logic to social security, welfare, medicaid/medicare and the like. Those that don't/didn't participate as functional memeber of society (read as working) don't get the same benefits accorded to those that do.

Hmmmm? I guessing you wouldn't agree with your premise put in that context. Would you?

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frogleggs

Apr-01-13 11:28 AM

Vauche,

your statement below is not

‘FUNNY’

at all, but is pathetic in many ways . . .

“Funny, maybe we should apply this same logic to social security, welfare, medicaid/medicare and the like.

Those that don't/didn't participate as functional memeber of society (read as working) don't get the same benefits accorded to those that do.”

Unfortunately, this is what has evolved to be the norm and standard for many of the less fortunate.

What made a ‘temporary’ measure to help, has become an extended method of living.

What has compounded the lot of many of the less fortunate,

is that jobs have left this country,

and there are fewer opportunities to earn a decent standard of living today,

than there were between the end of WW2, and the early 1980’s,

right after jobs were outsourced

by the rich

the rich republicans,

the rich democrats,

their businesses and corporations.

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Vauche

Apr-01-13 1:18 PM

Jobs most certainly left this country primarily due to inflated union salaries and compensation.

What you had was unskilled jobs being paid skilled wages. Companies could find this labor cheaper, so they did. Gone are the days of leaving school in the 9th, 10th grade and working for GM, and they will never come back.

Technology hurt as well. Why pay the wages of 3 or 4 unions members when you can pay one to work a machine that will do the job of 5 union members with much less bickering and threatening.

You can back the unions all you want but they are their own worst enemy both in economics and in public opinion.

Lastly, if you believe that a majority of folks taking entitlements are just down on their luck, you live in a delusional world. People play the system and do so intentionally. They play on your emotions and guilt for having more than they do. In the end, they prevent the real needy from getting the help they need.

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hardhead

Apr-01-13 9:10 PM

I would have no problem with RTW if the RTW worker, stood on his own 2 legs. If Mr right to worker comes on my jobsite and by himself gets a $2 raise, well good for him... but if he gets a $5 per hour pay cut, and no insurance, well that's also good for him... he shouldn't get my benefits if the company isn't willing to pay them.

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dropthehammer

Apr-01-13 9:55 PM

unions make people weak, lazy, and non productive. they are good for people who normally would never get hired because they are undesireable. unions are bad for busines's. pro union people are pro union because without a big brother to fight for your sorry *%! you would be just another face in the unemployment line. if you are a good person who meets and exceeds job performance expectations you will succeed and make good money without worry of being let go. unions will make our country socialist look what our union bought presidency is doing to america. entitled whiners without morals or religion. hand out open saying give me more while i do less. watch me consume more than i contribute. our best days are behind us.

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Cheesehead

Apr-03-13 10:39 AM

Seriously?

I MEAN SERIOUSLY?

How in the world could an intelligent person

make such broad dumb, stupid generalizations today.

The dopple heads are too young and naïve, about what unions have evolved into today.

It is not mainly the essence of job security,

because companies still have the right to fire a union worker for a long list of

malfeasance,

misfeasance or

nonfeasance,

and,

they must prove that a worker does not meet the companies standards

and cannot be fired for personality conflicts, etc.

The essence of belonging to a union, is to assert workers’ rights to mandate that the rich and their companies must bargain in good faith regarding issues that relate to their job,

the environment of the job,

safety of the job site, and of course,

the right to bargain on issues concerning remuneration.

If you dolts, are comprised of such ignorance, you are too young to remember the excesses of big busine

3 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Cheesehead

Apr-03-13 10:41 AM

If you dolts,

are comprised of such ignorance,

you are too young to remember the excesses of big business and the rich!

Stupid is, as stupid does…

Which of course means that an intelligent person who does stupid things is still stupid.

You are what you do, say and write,

a revealing reflection of yourselves!

STUPID ?

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Cheesehead

Apr-03-13 10:54 AM

In Italy, the law is:

No Head of Any Company can receive wage and salary compensation that exceeds

SIX (6) TIMES,

the wage or compensation of the company's lowest paid worker!

Now Voohc, how does that compare to management in the U.S. corporate structure

- how about some research…

ONE reason why twinkies and hostess cakes organization, went belly-up,

is because corporate management stood by to gain more in the way of compensation and severance dollars

RIGHT NOW,

then if they allowed the company to continue to operate.

Research that if you willllll.....

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Cheesehead

Apr-03-13 10:55 AM

Voochie,

Your incredible logic, should be a never-ending casebook study of classic stupidity and ignorance.

“Jobs most certainly left this country primarily due to inflated union salaries and compensation. “

You fail economics “99” on all counts.

You fail economics “100” on all counts.

Now, look at the inflated management salaries and all of their various compensatory golden rewards upon leaving a company.

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Vauche

Apr-03-13 12:04 PM

The pattern continues with Cheese. Can't refute arguements call others stupid and ignorant. I expect no less.

There's plenty of OSHA rules in place to ensure job saftey. Unions not needed there.

You don't need a work-out facility on any job. The environment other than saftey is irrelevant.

Barganing for renumeration in good faith equals threats of walking out and striking by union members. So, give us what we demand or we will shut you down. Yeah, that's good faith. The essence of compromise if ever I saw it.

Firing a union employee is a kin to getting the federal government to spend less. Technically not impossible but highly unlikely and fraught with legal complications and lefty/liberal public outcries of injustice.

3 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Vauche

Apr-03-13 12:14 PM

Guess what, we're not in that economic powerhouse called Italy.

Good grief if you want to prove your point don't pick a country getting bail outs. That should be a DUH statement. Further if you think that's so great, move over there and get a job. Noone is stopping you.

I fail economics, seriously?

What happens when expenses of producing a product go up?

What factors into the expenses of producing a product?

Union hacks fail economics and enjoy public support even though they share the greedy mentality of the uber rich.

When you negotiate your contracts you don't have my families finances in mind. You have your own and only your own. You don't care what it will do to the cost of the product you make.

YOU WANT YOURS, ALL ELSE BE DANGED!! (paraphrased for the sensors)

Please tell me otherwise I'd love to hear that line of bull.

1 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Vauche

Apr-03-13 12:32 PM

Lastly, who said I believe corporate executives deserve the amount of money they get? Wasn't me. You just assume that.

Personally, most corporate executives are just as crooked as the unions and their bosses. I don't believe anybody, businessman, actor or athelete are worth the money we pay them.

At the same time, I'm not jealous of them either. Ok, maybe a little bit. I'm fine with more responsibility getting more money. I'm fine with bonuses to CEOs that make companies billions of dollars. I think its stupid and rediculous that a failing company gives severance to a CEO that failed to make money. It's bad business in my book.

I think it's stupid for the federal government to bail out companies for bad financial decisions including accepting union contract demands all to protect their voting base.

How about that?

1 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Whizzywhig

Apr-03-13 5:43 PM

Vacuchee,

Evidently another party has picked up on your myopic eye view of economics!

I am glad someone else has seen fit to notice the fallacy of your logic.

You can’t seem to grasp the BIG PICTURE,

but rather, are intent on needling and wheedling every scrap of minutiae which contribute but little to the BIG PICTURE.

Look up the word dunderhead, it applies rather well, descibing your abilities, of reading, of writing, of compression, and lastly, THINKING !

Such sophomoric protestations belong elsewhere with the majority of the dunderheads.

2 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Vauche

Apr-03-13 10:34 PM

Whiz, you prove my point again. If you can't refute the arguement call the other names.

The BIG PICTURE? The rich did it?

By big picture would you be implying about the global economy. How we as a country have to actually compete with the rest of world? How many third world countries are now devolping and growing economies?

Do you mean the purpose of business is to make money? Make a profit?

Welcome to the BIG PICTURE of the REAL WORLD!

We lose manufacturing jobs in this country because manufacturing in this country cost to much. Between salaries and benefits for employees, government regulations, and corporate taxes we price our goods out of the market.

Put it this way, people around the world don't want American widgets, they want widgets they can afford!

How's that for understanding?

It's the mentality of unions and the likes of you who still believe we are living in the 20's and 30's.

Bottom line, if the unions and you think you can do it better why

1 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

yooperdawg

Apr-03-13 11:32 PM

Vauche Your knowledge of much of what you talk about is lacking. Allow me to point out a couple of your errors. In a rtw state the non union employee does not have to negotiate anything. They receive the same pay as the union worker, unless of course they are gods gift to the employer and they could negotiate a higher wage on their own. You think OSHA will protect you? Foolish. I see a OSHA inspector perhaps once a year on the job, and that is a generous estimate. News flash; not enough inspectors! Funny when the jobs left this country for cheap labor the prices of the items didn't go down. What a wind fall for the robber barons.

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yooperdawg

Apr-03-13 11:49 PM

Vauche. I would have thought that the manufacturers left because the governments of the countries they chose would rule the employees with armed soldiers. Of course they could pay them little. Pollution is an acceptable by product. Child labor? Acceptable. Sweat shops? Of course. So this is what we need to lower our selves to? Meanwhile the robber barons are making record profits, GE and many others pays no taxes. ZERO! ( so much for your complaint of high corporate taxes).

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yooperdawg

Apr-04-13 12:06 AM

There is always someone who will do "your" job for less. I'm an electrician. We go through 5 years of school and OJT to learn our trade. This training is paid for by every member of our union, every week as a deduction from our checks. We arguably have the best trained electricians.Does the electrician you hired really know what he's doing? But then again it's only electricity right? What harm can that do. Do you know how the non union around here do things cheaper? They don't worry too much about training. If they do any it's a correspondence course. Health insurance? Not a requirement, only the chosen few are entitled. One of them told me he hired on and was told he had insurance then he blew out his knee, oops no insurance. Pensions? Not a requirement, but that's ok we've got social security right?

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Vauche

Apr-04-13 12:15 AM

Yooperdawg, take some responsibility for yourself and if you see violations report them. I believe you can do this anonomously. I mean there doesn't seem to be any problem reporting to the union leaders.

You also negated your first critique of my lack of knowledge. I didn't say that RTWs had to bargin, only that they can if they want to. You said the same thing. Never said they would get more than union workers.

Prices have come down, you don't see to many $10k plasma tvs anymore do you. You can now buy brand new for well under $1000. Sure you still pay for top, top end but still not many approaching what they used to cost new.

I also think I've said numerous time around here that I don't believe big business is completely innocent. Maximium profits are their goals. This of course can lead to unethical behaviors, which I do believe should be dealt with legally.

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yooperdawg

Apr-04-13 12:18 AM

A UP motel was built by a non union contractor a handful of years ago. The swimming pool failed inspection. The ground fault circuit interrupters for the lights wouldn't work. They couldn't figure out the problem. The non union had to hire a union contractor to come in and fix the problem. It's only electricity right? You get what you pay for. Hammer, you think I'm lazy weak and unproductive? I can tell you're a rush fan. What an idiot.

4 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

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