JOHN60, sounds like some is need of a sedative. Get over it.
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Pdemm is right... The Koch brothers know that their disciples are lemmings. They will flutter off in whatever direction they are told, without so much as a thought. They work at a $10 per hour job, and rue the UNION worker who is making $30 per hour as being something akin to satan himself. Wow! says a lot about American exceptionalism....
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Hay, Bravesrock you say Pensions as the baby boomer generation knew them are disappearing because they are not sustainable. Unless you work for the Gladstone school system and you can vote your own wage increases in for the next 9 years.
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It is wrong to call it right to work, there are no laws on the books saying you have to work at a union job their are plenty of nonunion employers "Wal Mart". The problem isn't that union people make to much money, the problem is everyone else doesn't make enough.
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Pensions as the baby boomer generation knew them are disappearing because they are not sustainable, not because of RTW. Employers both public and private are finding out that they cannot afford defined-benefit pension plans anymore. The quicker the switch to defined-contribution plans occurs the better. People are going to have to become more responsible for managing their own financial future, instead of relying on an employer to do it for them.
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The right to work a lot harder for less pay and benefits does not help the wage earner. Couple that with a disappearance of pensions and you have a loss of over 50 years of improvement for the middle class. Snyders' policies are taking us back to the bad old days.
You people are nuts to debate this issue like you have here.....really, neither one of you, Vauche and Whizzywhig, make a whole lot of sense.......I can't believe I really even WASTED my time reading your BS.
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Another example of your “logical” illogical thinking . . .
“Prices haven't come down because apparently the market will bear that price.
If enough profit is lost at the price
the price WILL come down.
Prices haven't come down because apparently the market will bear that price.
If enough profit is lost at the price the price WILL come down.
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you’ve got the free market confused with a corner on the market.
For example, everything you put forth does not stand rational thought.
Apply your words to the petroleum/automobile fuel markets.
Not long ago, there were over 140 major distributors of petroleum products in the U.S.
Today, we have five major refiners/producers/distributors.
Something tells me this is a monopoly.
according to your drift, consumers have a choice on where to buy gasoline to drive the price down.
There is NO CHOICE for consumers, when there are only five suppliers, thus the suppliers will keep charging higher and higher prices,
and by all means
DON’T BUILD ANY MORE REFINERIES;
MORE REFINERIES WOULD HELP TO DRIVE PRICES DOWN,
after all that would be a
BAD BUSINESS DECISION FOR REPUBLICANS, THE RICH, AND THEIR CORPORATIONS?
The rest of us will keep paying HIGH PRICES, and continue to be held hostage to Republican thinking, business, corporations, while the rich keep getting richer!
Vauche, that argument does't even make sense. Unless your point isn't conveyed correctly. What do regulations have to do with "right to work?" This is another way Republicans say they want less government, but then pass this garbage. Unions started to help the workers earn a good wage and have time to enjoy it. Have they become a little unneeded? Yupl. But Regulations are done by GOVERNMENT, not Unions. And any regulations that Unions had a hand into creating, was based on the right for the workers. This RTW legislation is based on politics. Repubs know most unions support Dems and this is there way to clear way for more crooked Republicans to keep control of our State governing body. That is what is sad.
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Advocating for regulations that make it more difficult and more expensive to do business in the US supports the Chinese government.
Who supports the $10/hr jobs? Those who work in higher paying jobs. Up here that's primarily the paper industry. How have they been doing lately? Struggling industries do have an effect on the surrounding communites.
Jobs get lost because profits aren't made. Less jobs equals less support for local small business. Pretty simple.
So you assume I shop at Walmart because I defend their jobs? Furthur they also sell made in the USA products. Those must be junk though cause..... why?
Vauche pull your head out, so that you are able to see clearly,take off your Rush Limbaugh jammies, Hop in your car and ride up and down the main streets in our 2 neighboring communities. You will see lots of closed stores, shops, businesses, that is what your $10 per hour jobs buys you, that is what your race to the bottom competition buys you. Its just a fact. Don't worry about me, I don't fall into that category, but far too many of my neighbors do. You keep buying disposable junk at the big box stores, and keep on supporting the Chinese government, because that is in fact what you are doing.
Yes, God forbid we support those hard working foreigners at Walmart. Oh, wait, aren't they our nieghbors too? Walmart, that nasty foreign company. Oh, crap, they're an American company too.
There's the truth of it. It isn't any American worker that should be supported. Just the union workers. Sad, very sad. Completely transparent too.
Only union I won't buy from is the one from GM. I will NEVER by a GM car again.
If you can't survive on your own you don't get my business. It's the only weapon I have or need to tell companies to stop messing around and make money. But, you don't want that so do whatever you want and keep complaining about companies taking advantage of everyone.
Frankly you two... I don't go to Walmart.. ever.... but I do go to menards, they have lots of American made products, and yes I make a concerted effort to buy American, and union made... Im sure you do not.
Well, hardhead, since you are such a supporter of well-paid American workers, then I assume you try to find American-made products wherever you shop. In my experience, many of the same people who talk big about needing to keep jobs here and build things in America are the same people who are buying the cheap "Made in China" junk at Walmart or Menards, or even better, off some internet site so they don't have to drive to a store that at least employs local residents. If you truly want to support keeping jobs in this country, then vote with your wallet and look for US-made products.
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We do business with companies and countries that employ it because we WANT their products. Even people complaining about it want what them and further can afford them. You want to stop business like this get people to stop buying their products.
If you have a business Hard the only reason you're not bankrupt is because you don't compete globally. Some industries aren't and realistically can't be global. Think construction.
Union construction might suffer greatly with this law though. Imagine a union contractor bidding against a right to work contractor? Ouch. Without mandatory union quotas the union contractor could not compete.
What is a "fair", "living" wage? I've never seen a number. Can you give me one? Can anyone?
Yes we are going broke so stop advocating for the spending of money we don't have! Stop advocating for increased government spending! Stop advocating for the destruction of what's left of manufacturing jobs in this country!
Fewer and fewer people making a living wage can't support the economy.
That's a funny statement from the likes of you. Say what you want but that is what Romney was running on. It called widening the tax base. For kool-aid drinkers that's a kin to more people working, earning a wage. I'm betting you didn't vote for him. Pitty, you couldn't see the forest through the trees.
It's also not just fewer and fewer people making a "living" wage, it's fewer and fewer people working period. Sucking from the government teat does not help an economy grow. Endless unemployment does not help an economy grow despite what Obahma, Pelosi, and Reid say.
Companies paying larger taxes on goods they import from other countries you say? What do you think that will do to the price of their products? DUH! Stop trying to punish businesses, you WILL lose everytime with higher prices and less jobs. Learn that and maybe then we can try and solve the problems we have.
Actually Im not bankrupt at all. As a country however, we are heading there. I always love the business people who tout competition in business.... but it never really is. The workplace conditions, the wage rates, and the treatment of workers is not competitive, its slave labor. Why would we compete with it? Frankly why do we do business with companies, and countries that employ it?
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Well Hard, you're bankrupt!
You point out the problem with your thought process. One no longer needs to manufacture in the market they want to corner. Companies according to previous posters have proven they can manufacture elsewhere and corner the US market.
Want an example, try solar panels. Heard of Solyndra? Manufactured here WITH government subsidies and still could not compete.
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I guess Vauche, I would hire well paid American workers to make products sold in America, if I wanted to corner the market in the rest of the world I would make my products out there, wherever. The both parties have to figure out that fewer and fewer people making decent a decent living cannot support our economy. Furthermore any economy that is not manufacturing based, is really no economy at all. I guess all of those "American" companies that make their products overseas, will have to start paying large taxes on the products that they bring into the U.S. along with the foreign companies that import.
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Yes things were good in the day. The day when you could go from highschool into the factory and work and make good wages. I don't argue that at all.
What you all need to do is look at what's changed. This is what you fail to do. Most seem to view this as if the US was the only scource of laborers. Well it isn't anymore.
The opening of markets and economies overseas has changed the landscape. Who here would hire the most expensive workers available if others would work for less? Remember to before you go off what we may see as servitude others may just be greatful for.
So go ahead and continue bickering about what once was and what should be. It fails to account for reality. We aren't the only fish in the pond anymore.
As for servitude, can you say welfare? The greatest detractor to wealth there ever was. So look to you increasing entitlements to find the source of poverty in this country.
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The majority of people are not businessmen,
and are not driven by money and greed,
we don’t need to beholden to servitude
in order for the rich to grow their wealth,
servility is not our resignation or designation,
nor is it the right of republicans and the rich to subject and marginalize
human beings to that level of bondage,
Wages, taxes, tax exemptions, regulations, and profits,
all form the sphere in which our
standard of living rose,
how our environment is affected,
how our air is affected, and
how our land and soil is affected.
With the advent of unions,
even the rich,
maybe even you.
But with the advent of the “free-trade-melt-down”,
lack of tariffs and
preference for outsourcing,
our economy dipped,
dropped and tanked.
Our workers no longer had the income to support our
because decent paying jobs and wages went overseas, and
the rich and republicans were able to increase their wealth,
while everyone else’s wealth was tanking.
I lived through the best of times, and the ‘trickle-down’ theory was at its best.
I have lived to see the ‘trickle-down’ theory stop,
and the emergence of the
old ‘trickle-up’ mandate.
You’re too young to realize how good the system was until the republicans took over
government legislators and legislation, and
denounced and set-aside many policies that kept businesses from killing the rest of us.
You are what you defend, someone said !
"The rich, the republicans and the corporations are going to have to “except” certain facts, that they can no longer rob the poor to pay the rich?"
Obviously not, duh! At least not until the rest of the globe catches up in terms of the wages and tax rates that we have in the US.
Based on the direction of the current administration and it's followers it's highly unlikely this will ever happen.
"The present system, precludes this possibility for self determination.."
I call BS to this. There's a lot of self-made businessmen out there. All it takes is the right idea.
The problem you all seem to have is it isn't as easy as you think it should be. That's your problem, not the systems.
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