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In defense of school teachers

September 12, 2013

There are a lot of reasons I wouldn’t want to be a public school teacher these day....

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(38)

Jessejames

Sep-12-13 11:11 AM

Andy, Excellent excellent article. You, as usual, hit the nail on the head!

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Vauche

Sep-12-13 2:34 PM

Yeah hit the nail and put it right into his brain dead head.

Conservatives don't care about education? Yeah, conservatives with kids care little about the education of their children. You realize Andy how stupid that sounds? Ever stop to consider that conservatives may just be concerned about what their kids are being taught?

You ever stop to consider that what conservatives our concerned about is the increasing expense of education and the decreasing results of said education? You ever stop to consider how poorer countries can spend less on education and test higher in math and science than the US? Is it wise that we spend money on sex education in grade schools given this information? Is it wise that we spend educational dollars on feeding children three squares a day instead of education?

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wereintroublenow

Sep-12-13 3:02 PM

No one is against paying good teachers good money.. In fact I say pay the good ones more. trouble with it is, we drag along the bumbs with the good ones, that is the fault of the unions and only the unions. I am a conservative and I have bought my kids back to school supplies along with enough for a couple other kids too. So dont tell me I dont care about education or that I dont send my kids to school prepared. Maybe the liberal teachers should quit brain washing the kids into liberal selfishness. Maybe the liberal teachers are now reaping what they sew?

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Vauche

Sep-12-13 3:18 PM

Very progressive ideal, "It's not their fault". There in lies the problem. Test scores are not the fault of the teachers lack of teaching. Poverty is not the fault of the poor. Crime is not the fault of the criminal. Nobody is ever responsible for their condition or actions.

The spread of progressivism in this country is the very thing you describe as the impetus to teacher failure. The increase in poverty and crime, the lack of discipline (don't spank that child), and lack of drive (think Occupy Wallstreet movement) all take root from a progressive mindset.

In fact Mr. Heller it is the liberal progressive who is the hypocrit in claiming to support the successful education of our children while openly destroying the very structures to securing it - a strong family group, the notion of responsibility, and the American dream.

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Vauche

Sep-12-13 3:40 PM

To the teachers out there, while my statements may sound harsh I don't envy you your jobs.

I also know, there are very good teachers out there. I realize you don't always get support from parents and you have practically no means of discipline in class.

My issue is not with individual teachers but the union AND the belief that conservatives don't care about education.

It seems every issue some teachers and their union point to to explain the problems they encounter are direct results of the spread of a liberal progressive lifestyle in society. A lifestyle that even while complained about is supported wholeheartedly through local, state, and national elections.

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Whizzywhig

Sep-12-13 4:26 PM

one thing is certain, vauchee would not last ONE (1) DAY, in the classroom, be it kindergarten, or highschool at the 12th grade level.

vauchee, would be "outclassed" by "simple" kindergarteners, and overwhelmed by "simple" sopohmores.

there isn't a conservative pogrom he wouldn't endorse.

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Vauche

Sep-12-13 7:04 PM

There's plenty Whiz.

Primary program in schools by a republican (Bush I believe) is No Child Left Behind! The one program most responsible for dumbing down our children.

I have an idea for corporate America. How about we all work at the pace of the slowest employee? The four main excuses Heller gave poverty, crime, lack of discipline, and lack of drive all have roots in the progressive lie.

The progressive lie -

The belief that ones position in society is a product outside of their control.

The belief that children can not handle failure therefore must never fail or lose or win at anything.

The belief that telling children "NO" will hurt their feelings, hence creating a negative self image and a life of self-destruction.

You protect you kids from predators, not from living and learning.

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Elissa82

Sep-12-13 8:48 PM

If you are basing you entire premise of our "failing education system" on how well we are performing on standardized tests, then you have bought into the hype that those tests can accurately detect a person's knowledge and value. This is simply incorrect. Countries that score well on tests and the memorization of facts do consistently poor in areas of innovation, creativity, & other qualities that make an American education a "golden ticket" throughout the world. Education is not a business. Teachers cannot control the quality of the product coming in. They take what they are given and help the children grow in every area, not just filling in circles on a bubble sheet. Locally, we have some of the best schools and teachers out there. Support your schools. They need it.

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Jessejames

Sep-12-13 11:00 PM

Schools reflect society. The conservative, while saying not to blame outcomes on poverty etc....then goes on to blame the "union"!I believe conservatives value education and about 80% think teachers and schools in this area rate a "B' or good grade. But then the contradict themselves and say the product coming out of public schools is inferior to foreign countries. This is why they think this way: They have been brain washed by the propaganda spewed out by Rush, Beck,Trump and especially Fox news. They ALL have the same negative ideas....no man made climate change, anti union, our educational system is failing, gays have an evil gene and should just change themselves into heterosexuals, President Obama is a Muslim. He's trying to destroy America, and anyone on welfare is lazy and a degenerate. And to me the worst is the HATRED they have for our President thus any idea he has they HATE...because Rush tells them to or Fox tells them to or well you get the point. Lastly, n

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Jessejames

Sep-12-13 11:03 PM

or ultra conservative will see themselves in this light. Their minds are closed. I have never seen one of them change their mind....even when shown the facts. Slander and Liable used to be taken seriously....not anymore...simply lie and slander the President and his reputation...it's the conservative way!

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Vauche

Sep-13-13 2:05 AM

I'm not sure anyone of sense would promote the teaching to standardized testing beyond the fact that this is how schools are scored now-a-days.

You can though use them to make comparisons of the same groups in different cities, states, countries. Further math and science at elementary and high school levels have more to do with basics than the theoretical. 2+2 will always equal 4.

Yet another area you could use is the illiteracy rate among graduates of our high schools. 19% of high school graduates can't read. 14% of adults (32 million) can't read. 21% of adults read below a 5th grade level. Does this sound like a educational system that is working?

Are teachers solely to blame for this? Absolutely not! There are many factors outside their control but to imply it is all the consequence of the "quality of product" brought in is fallacious.

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Vauche

Sep-13-13 2:25 AM

Jesse, where to begin?

The conservative blames outcomes FOR poverty.

The conservative blames unions for siphoning money away from students.

The conservative believes 90-95% of teachers are good. They just wish the 5-10% that aren't could be fired!

The conservative blames the union for not allowing teachers to be compensated on ability instead of seniority.

The conservative would love to see governmental intrusion, such as standardized testing, eliminated from schools. Particularly that of the federal government and department of education.

All of these things are under the sole protection of the liberal progressive establishment.

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Vauche

Sep-13-13 2:45 AM

As to the rest of you post.

I find it odd that hating Obahma is bad but the contempt and hatred of Bush was/is completely acceptable.

I find it odd that libel and slander are only a concern when a liberal or progressive is the supposed target.

I find it odd that you even bring up libel or slander when the second half of you post is pretty much nothing but libel concerning a vast majority of conservatives.

I find it odd that you accuse conservatives of being closed minded yet can't fathom that our educational system as it currently is has problems.

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Whizzywhig

Sep-13-13 8:18 AM

If it is not

conservative,

republican,

greedy,

pilfering,

cheating,

tampering,

money laundering,

scamming,

scheming,

tax evading,

and

gaming the system,

to outwit the feeble minded of us,

Vuachee will claim it isn’t worth while…

Don’t waste your breath

trying to ’reason’

with a

dunderhead,

deadhead walking.

Go-to-bed- vuache

- it’s evident you can’t think in the wee hours of the morning when your head obviously needs a rest.

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Vauche

Sep-13-13 3:23 PM

Well whiz at least I'm not saying the problem is that kids are stupid and there's nothing teachers can do about it.

why our we spending any money on educating these "products coming in"? Just chuck these flawed "products" since with our current crop of teachers it is hopeless to try and educate that class of child....I mean product.

I mean do you see how cold that argument is?

It belittles our children and our teachers, yet you would argue I'm the dim-wit.

I end with this, I see no excuse, despite whatever the child's status is entering the system, that 19% should graduate high school illiterate. That's 19% going 13 years without anyone realizing they were illiterate. 13 YEARS without one teacher noticing and caring enough. Ok, ok, I digress, the system is perfect and the people in it flawless.

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yoop2u

Sep-13-13 8:34 PM

Great article again, Andy. Mr. Vauche, many of your ideas I agree with whole-heartedly. NCLB was a failed idea and now, instead of repealing it, it was expanded into the Common Core, Race to the Top, and expanded over-testing of our children. Both parties at the federal level have accepted corporate monies to push these agendas. You can not blame one party. In addition, I do not feel that you can blame the teacher unions. While I, too, have heard the horror stories about the occasional "bad" trades/factory union member who tells others to slow down so he/she does not look bad- the teacher's union, at a local level, has a different function and mindset - it provides a safety-net for teachers to advocate for the needs of children without fear of losing their job by those who have the job of protecting the budget. When those safety nets are removed, teachers can no longer demand that money be spent to help those failing students learn to read, (cont.)

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yoop2u

Sep-13-13 8:41 PM

When the safety-net of the union protection is removed - or reduced as it was in 2011 in Michigan, many teachers no longer feel "safe" writing letters to the editor, or demanding enough books for every student, or "rocking the boat" in any way. I wish I could say all teachers are heroes willing to risk their livelihood and teacher unions are therefore not necessary - but few people are in the position that they can live without a job.

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yoop2u

Sep-13-13 8:54 PM

*******nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1 In regards to your "facts" about the American educational system statistics, Mark Twain said "Facts are stubborn, statistics more pliable" Therefore, I have provided a website with more statistics that are quite the opposite of the ones you chose.

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frogleggs

Sep-13-13 9:14 PM

Vuache,

I believe wizziwig didn't name or call you a "DIM-WIT",

again, you got things mixed up.

Here, and I quote, is as far as I can see in his last post, is what he said:

"dunderhead,

deadhead walking".

That's no where's near your description as portraying and calling yourself a:

"DIM-WIT" !

Don't be so hard on yourself.

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Vauche

Sep-14-13 2:08 AM

Yoop2u, wow are you a fresh air!

I respect your post and most certainly understand and respect the points you brought up.

Most teachers are great and dedicated to task they do. These teachers most certainly need protection to voice their concerns. The concern with the union, any union, is the protection of underperforming members.

Thanks for the website, interesting information. I get that our scores are pretty good in comparison to most countries. The trouble really is we tend to lag behind countries in Asia, which is our big competitor in terms of engineering and technology.

I know one of my big issues is what we get for the money we spend per student. Our scores are good, yet we still lag behind some countries who spend way less. I think this is a big sticking point when we continuously are asked as taxpayers to supply more and more money.

All said though, you do bring up very valid points and concerns.

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yoop2u

Sep-14-13 10:44 AM

I understand that some countries do spend less. The states spend $1.7 BILLION on standardized testing alone! The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has pushed putting billions of dollars of technology into schools. All of the money spent in these ways, could be spent on things that will really make a difference. Many Asian countries do not believe in technology of any kind in classrooms until high school. When you say "spend less" are you talking education as a percentage of the GDP or in what they pay their teachers compared to other professions or what exactly? We are outperformed by the Scandinavian countries who pay their students to attend high school and college because they do not believe their students should be burdened with having to work a job while they are supposed to be studying.

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yoop2u

Sep-14-13 11:33 AM

Everyone also wishes to make schools into little business-models. Schools can not function that way. A good case-in-point is the misguided "Schools of Choice" legislation. Born out of a need by parents to live in the inner-city, but to be allowed to have a choice to send their children to safer or better schools - this legislation was pushed out to the entire state. Since then, schools all over have had to make the uncomfortable decision to spend money on advertising rather than more important educational needs. They have had to look at the budget with the attitude of "what 'perks' will bring students into my school". Students and their parents are customers - and everyone knows the old adage "The customer is never wrong." Unless of course, the customer is someone who drives away other customers - then it is more cost effective to get rid of them rather than help them improve. Of course, this goes against the core values of anyone who dedicated the

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yoop2u

Sep-14-13 11:40 AM

Continued...their life to education. The business model says -only accept the best product, and push out the bad. The education model says, "What can we do to improve all of the products?" The Schools of Choice model is one of those things that looks good on the surface so it can be sold to the public by politicians wanting votes. That's why politicians need to get out of making educational decisions. These are our children, they need to be off-limits for making political maneuvers.

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Vauche

Sep-14-13 8:04 PM

I'm with you yoop on standardized testing and the increasing abundance of technology particularly in elementary/middle school.

When I'm talking about spending I'm talking about dollars spent/student. What do we get compared to those that do better. 2010 numbers put us as the second highest spenders/student.

I will have to disagree on the school of choice legislation. This to me was designed solely to give equal opportunity to any student no matter their economic status or their address. I guess I would ask for examples of schools advertising, I have not heard any.

Schools have very little if any choice of who is allowed if they live in their district. Many schools have only a certain number of spots open to school of choice students. As a parent, I really like the ability to send my children to a "better" performing school.

That being said as to politicians, amen! Get them out!

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yoop2u

Sep-14-13 9:50 PM

Have you not seen the billboards enticing parents to send their children to the various local schools, the radio advertisements, the television ads, etc., etc? Those cost money. Money that should be spent on education. Schools make decisions to spend their limited funds to keep driver's ed and popular sports programs, while increasing class sizes, reducing student support staff, etc. One-to-one technology is a draw, so money is spent on such endeavors. If a student is failing at one school, parents use school-of-choice to avoid retention and there becomes a phenomena of "school hopping". If I want my child to graduate with a high GPA, then I send him or her to the school that has the most grade-inflation so that he will get into the best colleges. "Tough" teachers -something valued by yesterday's parents - is not a marketable quality when you are treating schools as businesses. When a business model is used, the whole climate becomes something other than true

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